[Battle magic Teleport Self ]
Power 1
Together with a nasty magic item or spell, this spell could put 
you into position to do some massive damage. Imagine having a
zappo magic item and teleporting behind enemy troops, or perhaps 
the Black Gem of Gnar. With the right combinations, this
spell can be a game winner. 

***[summon zombie screening unit ...]
> Let them think they can charge ... then ... zap up an zombie unit !
> The "crumble" unit must be one that's designed to be destroyed.  
> The easiest way I would suggest that you do this is with Zombies.  
> Book of Ashur and Crown of Sorcery are both ways to access a simple 
> Raise Dead spell, and the unit isn't even there at the start of the 
> battle...it just shows up when and where it's needed.

Good idea, for us undead it is even cheaper ... 

some more info. 
Minimum of 5 pips must be there to summon a new unit. 
So D6 lvl 1 is 33%
Your opponent might dispel it,
WoM might not be strong enough ...,
free VPs for your opponent ...
The unit in question might just not charge it or use another unit to 
charge it instead.
kindda expensive ... not our problem ...
so you better have a solid plan ... 
[or non-magical screening]
Make the unit weak enough to vaporize. Don't let them flee. Goblins in
small numbers, snotlings, Skavenslaves, etc. all make good screens. The
problem is that against an army with good missile fire, the screens will
die very quickly. I use a screen of 16 Skavenslaves, and that seems about
right, against most armies. 16 goblins is about as good. DO NOT give them a
standard, since that's just asking for it to be taken away.

[some people like to use Necro spells ... so deny them !]
> The easiest way I would suggest that you do this is with Zombies.  
> Book of Ashur and Crown of Sorcery are both ways to access a simple 
> Raise Dead spell, and the unit isn't even there at the start of the 
> battle...it just shows up when and where it's needed.

Get more than one mage and pick all the necro spells ... hehehe


(one High level mage vs many low level mages)
> magic is a tougher question....  with magic levels being exactly that:  a
> magic level, no matter what race you belong to, it's hard for some armies to
> compete in the magic phase.  a level four tzeentch sorceror is no better at
> casting spells than a goblin shaman lord.  i often try to stay afloat with
> magic, bringing multiple dispell scrolls, a skull staff, items which store or
> gain WoM cards, and lower level wizards so you don't waste multiple extra
> cards.  plus, no matter who casts total powered spells, they will still kick
> arse!  cheaper and effective.  
***[more/less mages]
There is another slightly subtle advantage to leigons of lesser mages -
you can get a leigon of spells to cast throughout the game.  This makes
it easier to match a desired effect with a particular spell.  And with
not being able to redraw unwanted spells it increases the likely hood
of getting desired spells.
And there is always the "underhanded" reasons - get & hold all dispels,
total power, drain, etc.
-Anthony L. Edwards              Visual Simulation Systems

[three little pigs or one big bad wolf ?]
What if total power is out of play? The only other time when 4 x L1 != 1 x
L4 is when Drain Magic (the spell) is in the game. It can't be dispelled,
and all the wizards on the table have a chance to lose a level. Thus, a
level four survives better. He also survives Mental Duel better, and
dispells more effectively. That's what you pay for when you buy the big
guys: Survivability. The host of little shaman (or warlocks in my case) can
do the job, but it's almost always good to have a higher level guy around,
supported by some low level ones to hold cards.  A level two wizard (any
race) with a power familiar and another useful item is often a good, quite
durable character. And he can lose one mental duel and still be a threat.
                                                        --T. Rat

---
- andorax@idibbs.com -
Gains the abilities of a third level necromancer.  Hmmm.  Let's see:

1)  If the Necromancer takes Necromancy, he may choose his spells and
recast on a 2+
2)  If the Necromancer takes Dark, he may use dispels as powers to cast
3)  If the Necromancer takes Battle, he may do neither.

The above is just like a normal Necromancer.

4)  May take High, and use powers as dispels (as a WE Wiz. Lord, he may
do this).

Since you can only take ONE deck of magic, and since the special
abilities gained are dependant on which deck you select, it would be
impossible to gain multiple benefits.

If that doesn't work, then kill the bugger and claim that his army all
disintegrates.  Declare that this is one of the "abilities" of a third
level necromancer.

=============
Something you should know ...
Skull staff is not a weapon
assasin cannot "surprise attack" staff wielder
if the character is "hidden" such as 
assasin or a Gyrocopter engraved with the rune of disguise
the magic item is not reveal.

Q: Can the ring of corin be used to destroy familiars? 
A: No. [Primarch] 

Q: The Ring of Corin (or some equivalent) is used to destroy the 
Book of Ashur, what happens to the character who has it? 

A: That character looses any magic level gained, and looses one 
randomly determined spell.  The others are assumed to have
been memorized by the spell caster, so he may continue to have them, 
even if not otherwise allowed to. [Primarch and Games Day '97 Ruling] 

==============================================
Your opponent wants to be a lvl 4 woodelf highmage and a lvl 3 necromancer?

going by his interpretation then, this character is possible

lvl 4 necromancer lord (4 magic items, 4 spells)    410 pts
        + crown of sorcery (+3 spells)              125 pts
        + Book of Nagash (+1 lvl, +1 spell)         100 pts
        + Spell Familiar (+1 spell)                  50 pts
        + Book of Secrets                            50 pts

totals                                              735 pts

level 5 necromancer with 9 spells, retaining spells automatically, and able
to cast any/all of them as many times as he wants for d6 attribute points a
piece AFTER using up all of his power cards

Tom Welliver 

==============================================
a "remains in play" spell and can be ended in the players own magic phase. 

==============================================
Q: Can characters who fall into the categories of mummy, wraith, 
or wight be affected by van hels danse macabre if they are
by themselves? If they are with a valid unit? Are other characters 
affected if they are in a valid unit? 

A: A character who is a mummy (Settra), wight, or wraith that are not in 
units are affected by van hels danse macabre. Other characters (necromancer, 
liche, vampire) are only affected if they are in units of undead troops 
(where the undead troops are affected by van hels danse). [Primarch] 
==============================================
Subject: 
         RE: [WHFB] Q&A 
    Date: 
         Fri, 17 Oct 1997 08:11:39 +1000
    From: 
         Will Chris 
Reply-To: 
         warhammerfb@direwolf.com
      To: 
         "'warhammerfb@direwolf.com'" 
...

between 2 MAGIC items - you have to roll off
to see what happens ( Helm of Eyes & Executioner's axe) 
[RB] --------------> If its a normal NON-MAGIC double handed weapon,
then the magical strike first effect would allow them to strike first 
[RB] --------------> And finally, if there is a Skaven assassin (who
strikes first) is fighting someone with a MAGICAL strike first, the MAGICAL
strike first would take presedence

[RB] Blair Kakacek 
==============================================
>        Good! Except I haven't played high elves yet... :)

Be afraid. Every power card they get is a potential dispel, and their troops are faster, 
more skilled, and can wear heavy armor without movement penalty (and therefor wear heavy 
armor). Add to that the fact that when you dispel, you need the Skull Staff just to break 
even for a 4+ dispel and the fact that they have spells that are actually targeted at 
Undead and it gets worse. Then there if Fiery Convocation -- Power 2, excuse me?!?

Luckily they have to pick their spells randomly, but even then they get an extra spell to 
choose from. Arrgh!

Bob K
==============================================
Tony Scotts wrote :

Because with the lower point cards, it is impossible or unlikely that you 
will be able to summon a new unit such as chariots, skull-chuckers, etc.  
The ranges are also longer, and thus can affect more units.  That's the 
thing that really bothers me, is that the range for a power 1 spell is 
18", and thus is unlikely to be able to reach all the units, and possibly 
only the unit that the Caster is in.

Each spell has it's use.  

Summon Skeletons - Power 1 is for upping the unit supporting the Caster. 
Basically you take this spell to allow your skeleton troops to be worth 
their points.

Raise Dead - Power 2 is for possibly creating temporary units to slow 
down the enemy advance.  However, at 1VP for each new unit raised, this 
is a costly tactic.

Summon Undead Horde - Power 3 Like most power 3 spells this can be a game 
altering card.  If cast successfully, it has a reasonable chance to 
create a Chariot or a big block of skeletons that will last the entire 
game.  This is the sort of spell that can defeat entire units.  Thus, it 
edges closer to cheesy, and the Assult of Stone, or Curse of Years type 
spell.

You have to clearly define your strategy and tactics by what spells you 
take, and of course your enemy will know very soon just what they are as 
you try to take them.  With limited re-casts, and your opponents dispels, 
Summon Skeletons is the most "cost effective" spell, however it means 
that you are playing a normal play with what you've got type army instead 
of creating units from no-where.  This is how I prefer to play because it 
makes it much more of a tactics based, troop oriented game than the 
alternative.
==============================================
...
You do raise a few good points about natural dispels and and targets, and 
I have indeed considered those.  I would also argue that there IS a 
problem with determining which unit is affected by spells with a random 
range.  Thus, you have no choice but to try to dispel it, because you 
don't know if it's going to reach.

Lets consider a situation.  Lets assume that we're talking about 
Assault of Stone.  The HE player casts the spell, and there's a unit of 
Trolls with their natural dispels.  Now, should the O/G player get to 
know if it's going to actually reach the trolls before he dispels?  I 
don't think this is fair.  This would be very similar to requiring the 
caster of Fireball to roll his dice to determine how many wounds are 
going to be caused before the opposing player decides to dispel.

This by itself throws enough doubt into the situation that I don't feel 
that it can be used as a similar situation.

As to the issue of minds already being made up, I feel that the problem 
would be greatly aleviated if, before the votes were already cast, an 
argument would be written up for both sides of the issue summing up the 
support / dispute of the issue.  There will be times, when a valid issue 
is brought up that is ignored.  I personally tried to address every issue 
and point that was brought up as opposed to simply snipping it because I 
didn't have an answer to it.  I honestly feel that this is what happened 
in the last issue, regardless how the vote came out.

As it stands the FAQ process is broken, and has problems.  My major 
complaint here is not about the Undead issues, but about the way that the 
FAQ is decided.  I don't feel that the list members are making their 
decisions with all the information, and basing their judgements by 
statement like this;

> "Now also I have to point out that for the most part, none of these 
> questions ever occured to mebecause our two foremost undead players are 
> good friends of mine, so I trusted them to know what they were doing."

This is NOT the basis for ruling on the FAQ.  I don't really care if I'm 
out-voted on any of these issues, however I do care what mechanism 
council members use to decide which way to vote.

There are things which seem a bit unfair, such as assassins always 
attacking first and ghosts which are not hurt by magic weapons, or 
summoning spells which can add to the same unit.  Even the wording of the 
original question was baising (no offense to Bob, and I'm sure it was 
un-intentional).  It asked if summoning spells could be re-cast at the 
same unit.  Of course the answer to that question is "No".  However the 
reasoning is what matters.  The rest of the answer is "No, becasue it's 
not recast AT the unit itself."

=============================================
Of which you can only take at most 4.  Of course if you are doing that, 
you're taking your best HtH (possibly only) fighter and reducing him to a 
powerful mage.  Lets not forget that other races can take each of these 
items too.  Let's not forget things like Banner of Wrath, Ring of Corin, 
and all the other bound spell items.  That means nothing.  Necromancers 
are supposed to be able to re-cast their spells.  Why?  Because it's 
necessary to make their troops viable.


I fail to see how summoning 6D6 into a single unit is "abusive".  
Personally, I'd rather see that than Winds of Death and Curse of Years 
sucessfully cast on my units.  Or even worse, if that's happening then why 
not summon chariots, skull chuckers, and other completely new units.  I 
think that summoning new units is much more abusive than summoning to one 
completely huge (and avoidable) unit.

This ruling has forced Undead to take the 3 power spells, and to rely 
more upon the "nasty" spells like Curse of Years, Winds of Death, and 
Drain life, the very spells that most people don't like to face in the 
Necromantic deck.  Personally I used to take Summon Skeletons most 
frequently because it was not abusive and I had a chance with 3 power 
cards of getting one or maybe 2 off.  Now I'm going to be casting Summon 
Undead Horde all the time (assuming that I can ever get it cast 
successfully) and you can bet that if I've got 10+ I'm going to be 
summoning a chariot behind my enemy.

So, now that we can't take a couple of medium sized skeleton units, and 
pump them up when we've got the power, we're being forced to take 
hero-hammer type characters and ignore our pathetic troops since they can 
no longer be relied upon to do any good.

All I can say, is that without re-casting on single units, you'll start 
seeing lots more ghosts, wraiths, mummies, and characters in my armies from 
now on.  You can thank the FAQ comitte for that.  Nice ruling.

==============================================
Ahh, this is where you're very wrong.  My preferred way of casting is to 
take a Liche with Gaze of Nagsh, VHDM, and Summon Skeletons.  This allows 
me to move my units when necessary, have a magical offense, and summon 
more to make up for their pathetic statistics.  If I instead take the 2 
or 3 power spells, then they are much more likely to be dispelled.  Also, 
since Summon Skeletons is only 18" range, the chances are I'll only keep 
one unit that needs to be summoned within range of the spell.  This is 
the real problem.

With the Book of Secrets, the recast is more likey to be used to summon 
new chariots to slam into the flanks and rear of the enemy than it would 
to create a huge unit that will eventually lose anyway.  The more 
skeletons you have in your frontage, the worse the combat is going to go 
for you.

==============================================
>If that doesn't work, then kill the bugger and claim that his army all
>disintegrates.  Declare that this is one of the "abilities" of a third
>level necromancer.

That is not a necromancer ability, but rather an undead weakness.  I'd rule
that any undead summoning done during the game by fellow wearing the crown
of sorcery would crumble to dust if he dies.  Other normal troops would not
be effected in this way.
=============================================
Banner of Arcane Protection
Again, the dispell effects the whole unit, so I assume that the wounding
effect affects the whole unit as well.  Yes, its powerful, but the way we
play its effects take place in the magic phase and not the combat phase so
they have no effect on combat resolution.  I have thus far been
underwhelmed by its effect on the game, and for 50 points would much rather
have a banner of might or banner of defiance.
===============================================
<< My unit of Grail Knights charges a unit of skeletons led by a
 Vampire Lord.  In my unit of Grail Knights I have a hero with Van
 Horstmans and the Virtue of the Joust.  The hero issues a
 challenge that the Vampire accepts.  Does my hero automaticaly
 hit the vampire 3 times at S9?  (auto hit from virtue with lance,
 using vamps S7 +2 for charging lance) >>

Yes i beleive so.  Swapping stats and issuing a challenge would not IMO
cancel out your charge bonuses.
================================================
<< I saw a post recently about the ex-ax, someone said he prefered his
 opponents to have to roll to wound before killing models.  My ex-ax card
 says that it kills on a roll to *wound* of 6.  You all know that I have the
 4th ed card.  In 5th ed does it now auto-kill on a roll *to hit* of 6? >>

Yes in 5th edition if the wieder rolls a 6 when rolling to hit the opponent
model is automatically killed with no rolls to wound and hence no save.  It's
50pts and anyone can use it (not just the dark elf special character that
carries it).

=====================================================
Subject: 
         Re: [WHFB] Grand Tournament (balance ?)
    Date: 
         Sun, 19 Oct 1997 10:26:47 -0700
    From: 
         "Bill Edwards" 


> I think I understand ... like the e-mail I just send ... undead can veto
> those "safety device" and cheeze up on mages like one 4th and one 3rd
> Necro. with 7 or more slots to put spell/power items \

This is actually rather ineffective - remember the good player will veto
book of secrets EVERY time he sees it in an undead army...  probably POS as
well...

>... and with veto
> undead can kill other army's safety devices such as dispel and maybe low
> LD's army's CoC ... the key is "repeat spell casting ability" is where
> the money is for Undead and veto make it even deadlier ...  right ?

Undead is deadlier with veto yes - but for many reasons...


> 
> I understand more now listening  to you and realize why I hate this veto
> thing so much ... you see, I made a choice early on playing undead ... I
> don't like to use spells to zap opponent to dead.  I like to use it to
> improve my RnF and use my RnF to defeat my enemy, yea, tactical slow
> death ...  2 or 3 Necro. was  not my way and this veto force me to field
> lots of Necro. to ensure supermecy and thus screw up my tactical dream
> ... 

You need not rely on spells....

> 
> So this veto thing cannot really prevent certain advantage/disvantage,
> well ok I'll say it cheeze balls ...

It can make the cheese much less of a problem - also this is why IMO that
composition scoring is very important to a tourney...

> it may in fact worsen it, and a good player is always going to be on top
> no matter what ! ... 

Yes, the best players will end up on top regardless of restrictions - the
others can whine and complain all they want - the best player s will always
end up where they belong...

> 
> Orc and Goblin really doing well ? hmm ... like to hear their input ...
> 
> Not question your ability TO excell over the veto bit, i don't like it
> because it force me to become cheeze ...  my cheeze, not yours ...

You need not cheese up - really - watch for battle reports from USGT -
Jeremiah Karnes/Tom Van Dyke/Ron Spitzer - one of them will win (Unless
Tim, Mark or I get lucky and figure out how to beat them) and you will see
one mean list...

=================================
From:          Bob King 
I once has a Wind of Death bearing down on a unit. I summoned a unit of 6 
skeletons an inch away and then VHDM them into contact. The unit was 
pinned in combat, and was crushed by the WoD. That will teach him to take 
only a Lvl 2 caster without a champion in a unit attacked by a Vampire .
The same sort of thing could be done with Teleport (except that it would
certainly require less power cards ).

It is a pretty ugly issue all the way round. Shame GW didn't put an extra
field in the spell description for Targetted: Y/N. Would have solved us
all a great deal of pain.
========================================================================
WA>Hammer w/ master rune of flight, (12" attack range during shooting
WA>phase) rune of breaking (destroys magic weapons on a roll-off, after
WA>successful hit), cursed rune, (roll d6 after successful hit, 1-2 on
WA>effect, 3-4 st-1, 5-6, t-1)this combined with the master rune of
WA>flights auto hit makes this a pretty kick-ass weapon! only 100 points
WA>too!
==========================================================================